Proof that a Pre Trib Rapture AND
a Post Tribulation Rapture AND a
Post Millennial Rapture all occur!
3 Raptures!

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Posted online Book Version 2 on 5/11/2020

Opening Prayer

As I start to write this, let me pray. God please reveal unto me and to anyone reading this, some truth that we have never realized before or seen or understood in your Word specifically about the Rapture, and Your return. God be with us, teach us, and show us Your truth. Please bless this book and bring it into the hands of those whom You love and want to see these things. May this book have a special place in helping grow Your Kingdom. In Jesus name we pray, Amen. Thank You Father!

Day of the Lord

Day of the Lord

Ok so let's start with the Day of the Lord. What is the Day of the Lord?

(Isa 13:9) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
(Eze 30:3) For the day is near, even the day of the LORD is near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen.
(Amo 5:18) Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
(Zep 1:18) Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.
(2Pe 3:10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
(1Th 5:2) For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Ok, I think we have the picture. When the Day of the Lord happens, it will be bad news for those who are not and were not in a right relationship with Jesus. Sinners will be punished greatly. Now everyone sins, has sinned and probably will sin again. But there are those who realize their faults and have asked God to forgive them. And there are those who want nothing to do with God and would never ask to be forgiven for anything.

Post Millennium Rapture

The Day of the Lord happens and the sinners will be caught off guard, like a thief in the night coming to take away their things, this is a warning to sinners. It is a warning to sinners during the Great Tribulation as in 1 Thess:

(1Th 5:2) For you yourselves know accurately that the day of the Lord comes like a thief in the night.
(1Th 5:3) For when they shall say, Peace and safety! Then sudden destruction comes on them, as travail upon a woman with child. And they shall not escape.
(1Th 5:4) But you, brothers, are not in darkness, that the Day should overtake you like a thief.

And it is a warning to those sinners in the millennium before everything burns up:

(2Pe 3:10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt.

It would appear that from those 2 verses that the Day of the Lord happens more than once. That kind of threw me a bit. In 2 Peter, at this day of the Lord, after the 1000 years, everything burns up and melts. It's all gone, and right afterwards, a new earth and a new heaven come down. That part makes sense then, because if 2 Peter was speaking about the Great tribulation Day of the Lord from 1 Thess, how could everything be burned up and melted? We still have to have a 1000 year period of time and then Satan is loosed again.

In the 1 Thess. Day of the Lord in Ch. 5 it describes from Ch. 4 a rapture and resurrection scene that happens at the end of the Great Tribulation, before the 1000 years.

(1Th 4:16) For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first.
(1Th 4:17) Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord.

And you tie those in with these

(Mar 13:24) But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
(Mar 13:25) and the stars of Heaven shall fall, and the powers in the heavens shall be shaken.
(Mar 13:26) And then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
(Mar 13:27) And then He shall send His angels and shall gather His elect from the four winds, from the end of the earth to the end of heaven.

So we see here that the thief comes upon the sinners at the end of Tribulation because 1 Thess Ch. 4-5 align with that timeline when Jesus returns AND again like a thief in the night after the 1000 years at the very end of time before everything burns up and melts. And in both of those instances,

(1Th 5:4) But you, brothers, are not in darkness, that the Day should overtake you like a thief.

That day will not over take the brethren, the believers. It will only overtake the unbelievers.

Now my theory for the 3rd rapture takes place on the Day of The Lord at the end of the millennium. And here is how that plays out.

(Rev 20:7) And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
(Rev 20:8) And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
(Rev 20:9) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Some people say this is not valid because we will know the day, 1000 years will be easy to count. Well yes, and no. Yes 1000 years will be easy to count for the release of Satan. But then he is released for a little while, to deceive the nations and to gather them to battle. How long will that take? We don't know exactly and therefore do not know when that Day will be. And just like the Pre Trib Rapture, we will not know when that occurs, and the Post Trib Rapture, Jesus said unless the days be shortened, for the elects sake, no flesh would survive.

(Mar 13:20) And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved. But for the elect's sake, whom He has chosen, He has shortened the days.

So here is the thought, the theory if you will. It does not say that this is a tribulation rapture. So we don't need to go there. Unless we want to call the period of time that Satan is loosed for that little bit, a sort of mini tribulation? But it never mentions any Saints being persecuted. We just know that he is getting Nations together to attack Israel / Jerusalem. There are in fact though, Saints hunkering down in Jerusalem who are dealing with approaching armies who want to kill them. God then comes to the rescue and burns them all up with fire from heaven. After that, the devil gets tossed into the lake of fire forever in eternity, and all the dead not in Christ are resurrected unto death and judged.

The Earth is completely gone, melted, and a new Heaven and a new Earth is formed with no oceans, and the New City of New Jerusalem comes down from heaven.

But it never mentions HOW those last Saints in verse 9 ever got to heaven. There are 2 options, they were killed when the fire came down and burned everyone up, and they were immediately with God because they were believers who were resurrected, (I don't believe that because of what it says about not being overtaken like a thief) OR, they were raptured up just before the flames came down. And it was probably those same flames that melted the entire Earth. It just does not say what happened to those very last day Saints.

What do you think? Like I said, it's a theory because it just does not say, but out of the 2 options, I am going to go with that one, a 3rd rapture.

And now, what about the saints who died during the 1000 years and are sleeping (died, but now sleep in Christ), when do they get raised, surely not with the resurrection of the dead to be judged and thrown into the lake of fire? They would need to go up with the ones who are alive and remain in that 3rd rapture. Again, it just does not say, and unless we think about them, God's Word must be true for them as it is for us now.

What about the wedding?

(Dan 9:27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Now in Daniel it does say 1 week, representing a 7 year period. This period is the GREAT TRIBULATION, but we also know that in the middle of the week, (42 months) the sacrifice and oblations cease. No more from then on, even unto the CONSUMATION... which would happen right after a marriage. So the marriage does happen in conjunction with the end of the GREAT TRIBULATION.


(Rev 19:6) And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
(Rev 19:7) Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
(Rev 19:8) And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
(Rev 19:9) And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

So we see a great multitude is there, rejoice, the marriage of the Lamb is come and His wife has made herself ready. She is wearing fine linen, clean and white, which is the righteousness of the SAINTS. Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb.

(Rom 8:28) And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Now then, what about all the people who have not been raised up yet? What about all those folks? Are they not a part of the bride, a part of the church? How does this work with the people living during the 1000 years?

We see that the bride is ready in Ch.19 above. So if ALL OF THE SAINTS have to be in the marriage wedding at that point, then what about the SAINTS in Ch.20? Here is proof that after the marriage, there are Saints, on the ground, getting ready to be attacked by Satan in the battle of Gog and Magog.

(Rev 20:9) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

So what about these Saints? Do they not get to be a part of the wedding? Aren't they a part of the Church as a whole? All of the Saints who have not risen yet, all of the Saints who became Saints during the 1000 years and all the way up to these last post tribulation Saints at the final Day of the Lord, will all become part of the Bride. And here is proof.

THE NEW JERUSALEM


(Rev 21:9) And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
(Rev 21:10) And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
(Rev 21:11) Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
(Rev 21:12) And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
(Rev 21:13) On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
(Rev 21:14) And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
(Rev 21:15) And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
(Rev 21:16) And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
(Rev 21:17) And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
(Rev 21:18) And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
(Rev 21:19) And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
(Rev 21:20) The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
(Rev 21:21) And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
(Rev 21:22) And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
(Rev 21:23) And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
(Rev 21:24) And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
(Rev 21:25) And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
(Rev 21:26) And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
(Rev 21:27) And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

So the Bride presents herself AFTER the 1000 years. AFTER everything is burned up, and a New heaven and a NEW earth are made and a NEW CITY of JERUSALEM appears. The Angel says Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. And what does John see, a multitude of people? No. He sees a city full of jewels, a bride adorned in her jewels and streets of gold. A great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, and EVERYONE, the nations of them that ARE SAVED, shall walk in it. So the Saints of Ch.20 are in this Holy City and are a part of the Bride, but none of them were in heaven during the wedding in Ch.19. Only those who are SAVED, WRITTEN IN THE LAMB'S BOOK OF LIFE can enter in and EVERYONE ELSE, not allowed in the CITY, were judged and thrown into the Lake of Fire for all of eternity.

Jesus is Judge

But in the end, no matter what you believe, God, who created everything, will in one way or another judge everyone. And those who have been washed clean by the blood of Jesus, who truly believe that He is God and came down here and literally sacrificed Himself for all of us, will be ok! And those who don't, who won't repent, who refuse to believe in the truth, there will be no more time, no more 2nd chances, no more time to repent and ask for forgiveness. It will be a terrible day, but a necessary judgement day. That is what this will be about, Judgement, and it will be swift and final.

If someone did something very terrible to you or your family, would you want the Judge to judge them fairly, or to let them off with a "Don't do that again, ok?" Then we need to expect that Jesus will be a righteous judge at that time. But until that time, we have all been given the Good News that we can repent of everything we have done, and we can ask the Lord to forgive us, and we can become a new man, a new woman in Christ and leave our sinful life behind. But it is our free choice. And just like we have free will, we are free to do good, and we are free to do bad and terrible things.

God gave us all free will. Those famous questions of "Why would God let that happen?" "Why would a loving God ever allow that?" And the answer is that He gave us all free will. And we want Him to be an honest and fair Judge. He will not force anyone to do anything. He will not force you or I to love Him. And He won't stop anyone from doing the evil that they freely choose to do. Even Satan had a choice to rebel against God. What kind of love would it be if it was not of your own free will? Would it be real? I mean, He could force us to bow down and obey Him like mindless, obedient slaves, but that would not be real love, would it?

Now even though God allows evil, how would you ever know what good is? If it was always good, how would you know? If every day was sunny and 77 degrees, how would you know that it was good if every day was the same? If it was always sunny, if it was always 77, and every night was clear and 55. All the time, and that's the way it always was. Well we can't even fathom that. But because we experience good weather and bad weather, we can understand and appreciate the good days.

We experience good and bad all the time. We learn to understand what the facets are of good and bad. And God is a very good God. He is perfectly righteous, and will be a perfect Judge. But who set the standards of what good and bad are, of what right and wrong are? Where did the standards of what is good come from? Well those who believe in God, know that God set the standards. And those who don't believe in God, they set their own standards. As a community, they will govern their actions as they see fit. Germany was behind Hitler. The malicious and barbaric treatment of Jews was considered acceptable and good at one time in Germany's history. And today our community allows millions of children to be killed because the mothers have the freedom to choose whether they want it to live or die. But God says, "Thou shalt not kill."

Now eventually, when the timing is perfect, and completed, God will return. But my hope is that you will realize that God does really Love you! And everything He has done is because of that. And that is the truth. You can bank on that being the case with God, ALL THE TIME.

So what's going to happen when Jesus returns? Well there are a lot of things that are going to happen. Some things will be happening to believers and different things will be happening to non-believers. We kind of briefly talked about what will happen to non-believers on the Day of the Lord. And this book I am writing is for hope for both believers, and non-believers to come to know the truth, or more of it.

A Little Background About Me

So here is just a little bit about me. I was a non-believer for 36 years of my life. I kinda thought, well maybe something created all this. It would be probably even more statistically impossible that everything happened by chance. I doubt that chance had anything to do with it, but as far as a God goes, a God that you can talk to, and He will talk back? And He will have a relationship with you? That was so far out of the realm of possibilities in my thinking. If there was a God, He was silent and He wasn't personally making Himself known to me.

And I saw people who said they believed in Jesus, Catholics and Lutherans etc... But I never saw any of them act like saved Christians. And what I mean by that is, that their demeanor, their actions and their lives didn't show me anything that was contagious, or anything that I wanted, or anything that resembled something truly holy.

I saw the 10 commandments movie with Charlton Heston. I didn't see anyone walking around like Moses performing miracles. Instead I saw a bunch of the other regular people in the movie who were always doing selfish things. They themselves didn't seem changed or different in any way. Why would I need to go to church to be like they are, I was already selfishly fine the way I was.

But when I was 36, I met someone who was real, someone who walked the walk, someone who was bold and knew the word of God. And that is how I got saved. I was working as a prison guard and a fellow prison guard was the one who pulled out his bible from time to time and would read it, right in front of me, which of course brought up conversation. Which led me to reading scriptures at home online to be able to debate him, and after about 7 months, one day I was like, Woah! This is all real! I mean it is literally, mind blowingly real! The wording of the Bible, the way it was written, could not have been made up. It could not have been fabricated and passed down. It was too divinely inspired. And it just hit me.

At that point, when I knew that I knew, that God was indeed very real and true, my whole countenance changed. I immediately slunk down and this kind of fear came over me. I knew I had to have a come to Jesus meeting, and I did. I knew that if He returned that very night, and I had not made things right with the Lord, that I would be in grave danger! And so I walked outside, and I wept, and I poured out all my sins and cried out to God to forgive me. I actually was silly enough to try and literally list them all. Ok, God there was this, and that, oh yeah and that one time, let's forget that time for sure! And then I was like, ummm, God I have no possible way to individually repent for each and every thing I have ever done, please just forgive them all. And since that day, God has continued to literally blow my mind. I have seen miracles, signs and wonders that have dropped my jaw. I have had amazing dreams and now since becoming a Christian in 2003, I have learned a great deal more.

At first I could not get enough of the Word! I was like so on fire for God and I asked God to catch me up. I was 36 years behind everyone else! Please Lord, I need to learn a lot and quickly! So I was listening to 2-3 sermons a day. Most Christians get 52 sermons a year. I was getting 52 sermons a month, easy. I learned a lot. I have even re-learned some things. It's ok and all part of the process. You are going to learn some things wrong at first. I am willing to be taught and willing to be told I am wrong. And you are going to be wrong about things. Just do the best you can, and when you make a mistake, do exactly what you did in the beginning, repent. And remember, some of those Pastors are going to be wrong as well. And the people you run into at church are not going to be perfect either. And that is ok too. It keeps everyone humble. Only God is perfect, Christians are going to make mistakes.

Now the reason I am writing this book is 2 fold. It is helping me to figure some things out and I wanted to also give to you what God has given to me, right? Do unto others as you would have done unto you? Right? Well that actually isn't in the Bible. Well it is, it's worded just a little bit differently.

(Luk 6:31) And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

And I learned that there are many different versions of the Bible. For the purpose of this study, and from what God has taught to me, I will be using the King James Version of the Bible to quote from in this entire book. And just something to note about that: Anyone is allowed to quote from the KJV of the Bible absolutely free of charge, without getting any permission from anybody. And that to me sounds like something God would approve of.

The Dream

One of the main reasons for writing this book started because of a dream that God gave to me. I never really dreamt when I slept. I had some nightmares as a young kid and they happened over and over and over and one day I cried out, "I can't take this anymore! Make them stop!" Now as a 5 year old, I had no idea about God. But He heard me, and the nightmares stopped. In fact all my dreams stopped, until I was 36 that is! After I got saved, I started having some dreams, like prophetic, I am being warned kind of dreams. Watch out for this kind of dreams. And the dreams happen in a symbolism kind of way. They don't happen straight forward, like as things would happen in real life. I don't know why, God only knows why He does it the way He does it, and so most dreams need interpretation. Most dreams are warning dreams, but not all of them. Now that I have been a Christian for 17 years, I have learned a lot about dreams. The interesting thing is, I don't have that many dreams anymore. I have very few dreams now compared to when I was first saved. When you have a dream from God, you will know it. You will remember it. I remember all my dreams even from 17 years ago. Like I said, when you have a dream from God, You Know it!

So the dream I had, happened exactly 2 years ago. I was like WOW. I actually can't believe that, I looked it up in my sent file to my Pastor whom I shared it with. I often get signs of 2's, so many that I have actually written a book about them all. I hadn't had a dream in about a year or so before that, and I have not had a dream since - as of the date I started writing this, April 4th of 2020. (So it has now been 2 years since I have gotten this dream from God and I have not had another one, nor had I had one in a year or so prior to this one. So yeah, 1 dream in like 3 and a half years is rare when I have them, but important when I do.)

This dream was the shortest dream I have ever had; it literally lasted like 5-10 seconds. I was outside, at the end of my driveway, it was dusk time. Suddenly, I was grabbed by something very powerful, I didn't know what had a hold of me, and it started taking me up in the sky! Very quickly I rose higher and higher and the whole time I was very afraid. I couldn't figure it out, I was flat out frightened. I tried to scream, but I couldn't. We got really high up and then a little bit of the scream got out of me and that woke me up, END OF DREAM. Literally 5 - 10 seconds and I am now awake.

I immediately start to pray about this dream and what it meant. I was like, God, what was that about? I prayed about it for like 4 days. It seemed like it could have been a rapture? Was it a rapture God? Is the rapture coming? But God, I was so afraid. Then God put a huge thought into me. (A few times I have actually heard God's voice, but this time was like a downloaded thought) Why were you afraid? Hmmm, ok God, I was afraid because I did not know what was happening. I wasn't expecting a rapture. It caught me completely off guard. I was afraid because I was not ready for it! Oh my, Lord. Oh my!

I believe that God gave me that dream to cause me to be ready, so that when the Rapture happens, I will be ready and not afraid. And so this has caused me to dig deep into the Tribulation scriptures of Revelation and the Rapture theories, and that is why this book is being written.

That dream didn't seem to be that long ago, I am still kinda blown away here as I even write this right now, and then I am thinking, what in the world has taken me so long to do this? Maybe God was wondering why as well. This whole Corona Virus, Covid 19 thing really has a lot of people wondering what is going on. Everyone is being asked to stay at home, distance yourself, so this thing does not spread around. Some people think that this is a part of the N-e-w W-o-r-l-d O-r-d-e-r take over. And this is probably what has gotten me moving on this thing that God has put in my heart, from 2 years ago. So I hope that this helps with some things you may be thinking about and wondering about and I hope you learn as much as I am! Praise be to God!

Post Tribulation

OK, so I had originally believed in the Post Tribulation Rapture theory, I still do, but I have learned some new things also. There are really good valid arguments to put up about a Pre Tribulation Rapture. I mean, I have heard of many people saying they are either Post Trib or Pre Trib, and some are even Mid Trib. I am going to try to prove to you that there will be both a Pre Trib and a Post Trib rapture. And I already mentioned my 3rd rapture theory earlier.

Many people would immediately discount this notion because when Jesus returns, it is done, finished. So there can't be a Pre Trib one, and then another one after that. And then another one after that, can there?

Are there things that we know that can give us some clues as to how this could possibly be? Well, we have to take certain "KNOWN FACTS" as just that, and we cannot just take that fact and discount everything else that might go against it. I mean, if we can make it fit the "KNOWN FACT" then great, we may have to think outside the box, like 3 raptures is definitely outside of the box, but that's ok as well.

But to come up with something that goes against the "KNOWN FACT", you can't throw it out, it's in God's Word, so we have to reconcile it. But doing that is difficult, it takes some wisdom and understanding, and that more than likely comes from God Himself. I have already changed my position on some of the things in this book a couple of times because I found key pieces of scripture that did not line up with the theory I was on at the time. Like I said, I am ok with being told I am wrong. I just needed someone, or God, to point it out to me so that I could understand it. And once I understood it, I had to change my thinking on that certain aspect of the teaching. Once I did that, then I had to use wisdom and understanding to reconcile the verses. And this is what I have come up with to reconcile them.

So let's walk this out. I'll let you into my head and I am asking you to come along with me as we study God's Word, mostly in Revelation, but I will be bringing in many other scriptures as well. I am always open to rethink my discussion here, and I hope you are open to hearing and learning too.

OK, so let's start right off with a controversy. Here is one good argument against the Pre Trib Rapture theory.


(Mat 24:6) And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
(Mat 24:7) For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
(Mat 24:8) All these are the beginning of sorrows.
(Mat 24:9) Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Yeah, that last part, they will afflict and kill you part. Now how are those people being killed, afflicted and hated by all nations, if they were just raptured up in a Pre Trib mystery rapture? It's all about time. We don't know how much time has elapsed and neither do the Post Tribbers, because it does not say. Here is what I mean by that.

I have a few options I will discuss here. Verse 6 states it is just rumors, it says the end is not yet. Verse 7 explains a starting of things. Verse 8 - It's the beginning of sorrows. Verse 9 Then they will deliver you up, after the beginning of sorrows starts. You could interpret that to mean that this period here is still in the beginning sorrows part, and the Tribulation is not quite started officially. But I am inclining my belief that the beginning of SORROWS means the Beginning of Tribulation, so I would go with this next option.

Or you could definitely make a case that the Tribulation started, the official beginning of it, then nations are going against nations (Time has elapsed) so it's moving right along into tribulation, Pestilences (plural, more than one, more time elapsed) famines, (plural, more time) earthquakes, (again plural, more time) all of those things were the beginning of it, and now after these things, how much time has elapsed, it could be many months afterwards or just a few. But we can pretty much all agree that SOME TIME has elapsed.

So the, "THEN, they will be delivering you up to kill you" part after the "Pre Tribulation rapture" part that had already occurred a few months or many months back, already has a good separation. There has to be some time of separation there and I think we can safely agree that there is. I mean if it was like immediately it started, and then immediately after they were killed, and no time had elapsed, then that would be a big issue.

How many Christians do you think will be coming to Jesus during the Tribulation? I am sure the number will be so great you wouldn't be able to count them. I will discuss this great multitude that is seen in heaven in a little bit.

Let's get to another issue.


(1Th 4:15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
(1Th 4:16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(1Th 4:17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This is a very key verse that states a timing issue of the rapture. Or should I say, "A" Rapture. And it is another one that is used to say, see, you cannot be Pre Trib Raptured, because you cannot go up until after the dead in Christ go up. And we know that the dead in Christ go up immediately after the tribulation because we have to join 1 Thess with Mark 13 and Matt 24. So let's check out these really great verses on the subject.


(Mar 13:24) But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
(Mar 13:25) And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
(Mar 13:26) And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
(Mar 13:27) And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Mark states that the elect are gathered from uttermost part of the earth and uttermost part of heaven. Matthew however just states from the four winds and from one end of heaven to the other. But they match just fine otherwise. It's actually more viable proof that 2 different writers penned this. So do we marry these two verses together or is one wrong? One says from earth and from heaven, the other says just from heaven. Neither is wrong. One gives more information. But you cannot only take the Matthew one and throw the Mark one away. That is what I am talking about. You need to marry them together.


(Mat 24:29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
(Mat 24:30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
(Mat 24:31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

I think we can agree that the dead get resurrected here along with those who remained alive being raptured, they then get gathered together and it happens immediately right after the Tribulation. This is solid proof of a Post Tribulation Rapture. Unless you don't agree that the "elect" are indeed the dead and the remaining living ones.

The argument then would be, could a different rapture happen before this one, or after this one? And are we exactly sure of when this one is? (Yes) Do the dead in Christ get raised? (Yes) Then would a Pre Trib Rapture also meet the dead in the air, only to have one 7 years later of another rapture and another resurrection? (No)

Now what threw me off for a while was the verse in:

(Rev 20:5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

This had me thinking that in order for the dead to be raised in a 2nd type of resurrection, it had to be the dead in Christ along with everyone else when they were all brought before the throne after the Day of the Lord. And it is kind of tricky here, it just says, "the rest of the dead..."; note that in 1 Thes 4:15 it called them the ones who are asleep. Now technically, I did not catch that and went with the next verse 4:16:

(1Th 4:15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
(1Th 4:16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

So here in verse 16 it calls them the dead in Christ, not the "ones who are asleep", but I guess that God wanted no confusion as to the different meaning here of literally those who are asleep / but bodily dead in Christ from those who are sleeping normally and still alive. The dead and asleep mentioned here are the same. Again, I can't just take vs 16 and leave off 15. So with all of that said, the dead in Christ are definitely raised immediately AFTER the Tribulation. The "...rest of the dead..." then have to be only the dead who are NOT in Christ. If it were not so, then no "dead" could have been raised after the Tribulation either because it would have violated this scripture (Rev. 20:5) that we just read a bit ago.

So the first Rapture, the Pre Trib Rapture is a mystery Rapture, (I'll get to the proofs of it in a bit as well) and therefore does not have any of the dead or sleeping Saints coming with this group. All the Saints who are killed during the Tribulation, we know get to go right up into heaven and are under the altar. They don't sleep like the other dead in Christ had done.

(Rev 6:9) And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
(Rev 6:10) And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
(Rev 6:11) And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Well, are these all of the Saints who have been martyred since 2000 years ago? No, these are only the Tribulation Saints.

(Rev 7:9) After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
(Rev 7:13) And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
(Rev 7:14) And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

(Rev 20:4) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

So it explains that these tribulation Saints were going up there as they were getting killed, they are not sleeping and waiting for a resurrection, and they are not all in 1 group. Some are up there in Ch.6 and some more are up there in Ch.7. And they are mentioned again in Ch.20

This is now the entire group that has come from the Tribulation. If the Pre Tribulation theory is correct, then they became Christians and were killed as Christians during the Tribulation period. And they will be greatly rewarded, because they will rule and reign with Christ in those 1000 years and will immediately go up to heaven to be with Christ at the altar.

So what about Saints who died due to an accident, or of natural causes during the Tribulation? So that leaves a little bit of a side discussion. You can make an argument, that sleeping Saints rose at the Pre Trib, because you can still make a case that there were Saints to be resurrected that died naturally or of an accident during the Tribulation. It is possible, so I thought I needed to mention it, but since we don't have specific mention of the Pre Trib rapture, only mystery clues about it, a Pre Trib resurrection is also not valid, because I don't really see any clues about it either, but hey it could be a mystery as well, so there is that bit of a possibility. Like I said, I could have missed something there and I thought I would mention it. My human side does come out from time to time. I am sticking with a Pre Trib Rapture that occurs without a coinciding resurrection. However like I mentioned, the possibility does exist that could fulfill both.

(Rev 10:1) And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:
(Rev 10:2) And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,

So here in Rev. Ch.10 we see something that we need to know. Jesus is here, and he now has his foot on the ground and in the water. And below in 10:6 it says it is time no longer, and 10:7 says the mystery of God is finished.

(Rev 10:6) And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
(Rev 10:7) But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

So how is it possible then that the Lord would come twice to facilitate 2 raptures? If when He comes, there is time no longer as it states in 10:6? And everything is finished in 10:7? I know some people claim that the Lord can only come once. Did the Lord have to come when Elijah was caught up? Or Enoch? Later we will see the 2 witnesses got caught up and the Lord did not appear there either. And Ch.10 is at the end of a timeline of the Tribulation. So this coming has to be associated with the Post Tribulation Rapture.

Now here were a couple of interesting verses I had to figure out. If the verse below is mistaken for the Day of the Lord, then it could cause an issue, but I think we are ok with Last Day meaning last day of trib.

(Joh 11:24) Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

It turns out Martha is mistaken here and Jesus corrects her, because Lazarus is a believer and is only sleeping. He is not dead. If he were to be risen at the Last Day, Day of the Lord, then he would be counted with the unbelievers. So is the "Last Day" here most likely referring to the Last Day of the Tribulation? If "immediately after" can include the same day of the last day of trib, then, Yes it fits.

(Joh 11:25) Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
(Joh 11:26) And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

So we have a rapture and a resurrection message here, you won't die, you will either sleep and be resurrected, resurrected immediately, or raptured, but never die. And again, no one spiritually ever dies. Your spirit goes somewhere. There are many proofs of people dying and where they have been dead for many hours with zero brain activity and have recalled things being done and said in the room, which would have been impossible because they were literally dead, but yet their spirit was there watching, seeing, reasoning, and understanding what was happening. You can look these up. (So where will your spirit be going?)

(Joh 5:29) And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

So the resurrection of life is for believers who sleep and are resurrected or resurrected immediately like the Trib Saints are going to be. The resurrection of damnation is the resurrection of the dead at the Day of The Lord. They all get judged and thrown into the lake of fire. And by the way, rabbit trail here. Hell is a place where the dead wait until they are judged. The reason they wait, is because they are still spirits, they never die literally, just their flesh does. As they wait in hell to be judged at the Day of the Lord, they are without God, there is no light or goodness where they are waiting in hell. It is darkness and weeping and gnashing of teeth. From many testimonies of people who were given Godly dreams about it, they say it is hot, and there is never relief. It is horrible and frightening. It is complete agony because they now know where they are going to end up, in the lake of fire. There is no more hope for them. That is hell, Hades in Greek, and Sheol in Hebrew all mean the same thing. It is not the forever place, it is just simply called the waiting place of the dead.

So we have talked about the dead being raised when Jesus returns. This will happen, it's a fact. But is there any proof that a Pre Tribulation rapture couldn't happen unless it also had a group of the dead being raised as well? I think we covered all the bases, we know when and how the dead are all raised. All the groups and individuals are covered. So what I am saying here is that there certainly could be a Pre Tribulation rapture, as long as there is ALSO a Post Tribulation one that includes the dead in Christ being raised with them. If someone says that they ONLY believe in a Pre Tribulation rapture, then things don't add up at all, because there has to be a gathering of the elect immediately after the Tribulation. You cannot deny this, and if someone would have taught this years ago, many of us would not be wondering what does all of this mean?

Pre-Tribulation Rapture

Let's now talk about the scriptures that give us a clue as to a Pre Tribulation Rapture. Now to say that a Pre Trib Rapture is also going to occur, would mean that a Pre Trib rapture happens and then The GREAT TRIBULATION starts with NO TRUE CHRISTIANS left on earth? Right? Wow, is that even possible? Well then, where do all of those great multitude of Christians come from who are killed for their witness and beheaded during the GREAT TRIBULATION? We kinda hinted at that earlier. But here is a scripture that helps foretell this.

(Dan 11:35) And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

So they were of understanding, they knew the Word of God, but it says they fell, and it also says that they fell in order to make them WHITE. And so it is for their good and for their ultimate salvation. So where does this great multitude come from? I'll tell you where they come from. For starters, many people who were really not on fire for God, who were lukewarm, who were told that all they needed to do is believe only and they are good to go without ever having to obey anything or have an actual change in their heart condition, who said one prayer one time at one of those meetings or gatherings, but never really ever sought after God, those who never did truly repent of their sins, those who never did change, those who never really had a relationship with Jesus, those who never really LOVED God, but loved only the idea of a loving Savior God, those who refused to spread the gospel, those who robbed God of their tithes, those who loved their money more than God, and yes those will be a lot of them! Those who didn't keep God's word, those who didn't forgive others and wanted revenge, those who just kept on sinning and just threw the sacrifice of Jesus away with the wind. Many of these folks will be given a 2nd chance during the Tribulation to get their relationship with Jesus right.

And many others will be brand new converts who are totally brand new Christians, who were finally led to seek Him, and many who were atheists will now believe, and many agnostics too, and the Spirit of God will still continue to lead a great many people to the Lord from all over the world and they will be persecuted, and eventually killed by Satan and his N-e-w W-o-r-l-d O-r-d-e-r Beast Government. And they will be given white robes and crowns and rule and reign with Christ for the first 1000 years! Because in the GREAT TRIBULATION, then they will be faithful, and then they will have a true relationship with Christ and they will love and be loved by Jesus. It will be a great multitude indeed!

So how can there possibly be a Pre Tribulation Rapture? What is the real proof?

Pre Tribulation CASE #1 - 24 Elders

Let's look at the 24 elders in Heaven. They appear in Rev Ch.4 first.

(Rev 4:4) And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Now these elders are in heaven, they have their white raiment, (garment, robe) already on, and they have been given a gold crown already. Who are these elders? When did they get there? How long have they been there? All we know is that in Rev. Ch.4 they are there.

(Rev 5:8) And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
(Rev 5:9) And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

It says that they (the 24 elders) were redeemed by the blood to God, and that they came from EVERY KINDRED, and TONGUE, and PEOPLE, and NATION. So they are Christians! But now how could every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation be just 24 people? 24 people could come out from 24 nations, 24 kindreds, 24 different dialects, and 24 peoples, but out of everyone of them does not reconcile.

This is a HUGE question and cannot be dismissed, it must be addressed! Because if there are Saints in heaven, in Chapters 4 & 5, which is BEFORE the 7 seals are even started to be opened in Ch.6, then we have a problem with our current thinking of who is in heaven that we need to reconcile. Now there are Beasts in heaven and Cherubs too and we don't know when they got there either, but these 24 elders are clearly Saints.

When you start reading Chapter 4, Jesus was found worthy to open the 7 seals, and when the 7th seal is reached, it starts the 7 trumpets being sounded by 7 angels. Now Ch.10 starts out with this huge angel coming down to Earth.

(Rev 10:1) And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:

Now who does the angel remind you of? Jesus right? A rainbow on his head, face bright like the sun, feet like fire, right? It's Jesus down on the ground in Ch.10, here is proof it's describing Him.

(Rev 1:14) His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
(Rev 1:15) And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
(Rev 2:18) And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

At the end of these 7 trumpets it is finished.

(Rev 10:6) And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

No more time, it's done. It's like this timeline from Ch.4 through Ch.10 has ended from the start of the opening of the 1st seal in Ch.6 to the end of the 7 trumpets of the 7th and last seal. The Great Tribulation ends after the 7th Trumpet.

(Rev 10:7) But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Again, it is done, finished. It's at the end of this particular timeline. The Mystery of God is finished. This entire timeline of Ch.4-10 does not have a rapture mentioned or a catching up or a resurrection. But, it does have more Saints mentioned OTHER than the ones mentioned with the 24 ELDERS, which we have mentioned already before.

(Rev 6:9) And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
(Rev 6:10) And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
(Rev 6:11) And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

These GREAT TRIBULATION SAINTS have been given their white robes, but not their crowns yet. And this Scripture then would answer this as to why.

(Rev 11:18) And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

OK, a few things here. The dead here are being judged by Christ when He returns to bring His wrath. This is not the final Day of the Lord judgement that comes in Rev. Ch.20.

The one's in Ch.11 are being judged in God's wrath and are being killed. The ones in Ch.20 are being judged at the very end after they have died and have been waiting in hell and are a part of the resurrection of the damned. But at the same time, the servants and prophets and saints are being rewarded their crowns, because they have not gotten them yet. The elder group had them already. So this explanation does answer that question if it came up.

In Ch.4 the Elders 24 group, have their crowns, the Tribulation Saints do not have them yet. And those who were post trib raptured would now need their rewards as well. When the Lord comes to meet them in the air, He says His reward is with Him.

(Rev 22:12) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

At this point, the ones who have been slain for their witness and who were beheaded in the Tribulation have been resurrected. They are described exactly the same way that the 24 Elders were described as to who they are and where they came from, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues.

(Rev 7:9) After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

And if you do not separate the group with the 24 elders, you would think that this is the only group of Christians in heaven. Or you would assume that there are 24 elders who are special and by themselves only, and then this large tribulation group.

So here we have a possible dilemma. I say "possible" because it is how you look at it. If you are looking at the 24 elders as just them 24 people alone, and not of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, then this group being looked at, are the ONLY ones in heaven, and they came from the Great Tribulation as it mentions in 7:14. It does not mention that there are 2 groups here, a group which consisted of the 24 elders group AND the Great Tribulation Group. But the Elders are there because one of them is actually doing the speaking. And they is a possibility that John was just shown only this one group at this one time, in this one place and that there was another group up there in a different location. It is a possible option, it just doesn't say one way or another. There is no clarifying verse that states these were all of them and the only ones. We can't infer that it is the entirety of heaven either. So in order to keep in line with a Post Trib only view, you HAVE TO ADMIT AND JUSTIFY that Rev. Ch.4:4 that mentions the elders being there, and Ch.5:9, means only 24 people, and how only 24 people could be of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, and you would have to come up with a theory that is unexplained as to how and when those 24 elders got there. And then you have to add this verse.

(Rev 5:10) And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Here the 24 elders are not only saying that they were from all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, but that God has made them priests and kings to reign on earth. Question: Is it only these 24 elders who are going to be priests and kings on earth? Is it only them who will reign on Earth?

(Rev 1:6) And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

I am sure that there will be some crazy ideas about this. I just do not see it in scripture. And to easily explain it away as, it was being used as a type or a metaphor to later explain things...I don't think holds merit. But I am trying to be reasonable. I want the truth, it's pretty important especially in the times we are in, we need the truth and understanding.

Another thought that the Post Trib only group claims is that the 24 elders cannot be a huge group of people that were simultaneously raptured up when John went up, because the elders were already up in heaven, and those elders have just always been up in heaven. Well, honestly, John's going up and seeing elders can be explained.

When a door in heaven was opened, meant that John went up in the year 95-96 AD or somewhere in that range. And the fact that it is written in Rev 4, which is just before the Tribulation takes place is an interesting coincidence. But John went up in his day, and when He got up there, he was already seeing the future. It says he was seeing things which must be hereafter. So when he saw elders in heaven and they were talking to him, John was in the future. So that argument from Post Trib against Pre Trib of the 24 elders already being in heaven before John arrived, is just a misunderstanding of time, and not a valid argument.

Now also get this. Rev Ch1:1 John is writing the book of revelation and at first it states that he is being shown things which must shortly come to pass. He is NOT in heaven yet. Wow huh? I never caught that either. So when he does go up to heaven must be significant. Keep that in mind. And then in:

(Rev 1:19) Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

So now the Lord tells John, there is more to what I am telling you, more than the shortly come to pass thing mentioned earlier, so write this stuff down, the stuff you have seen, things that are now and what is to come. So he writes everything Jesus says to the 7 churches. Then he gets called UP in Ch.4. Right when he is going to start to be shown about the Tribulation. The timing of that is really more amazing than it seems in the natural.

Some people claim that, hey, it's not a divisive matter. We can prepare for the worst, meaning going through The Great Tribulation and Hoping for the Pre Trib Rapture all at the same time. And this is where I have been with most of my Christian walk. Until the dream, I truly had never given the Pre Trib argument a chance because of the facts about the Post Trib rapture being so sound.

I never did see the 24 elders as being an entire group of people of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues. I just saw it as 24 people and I had no clue as to how and when they got there and just moved on. But I don't think that way anymore, everything has a reason. And my dream made me really serious about studying this. When you are a new baby Christian in your faith and you read things you don't understand, you just move on and figure it out later, maybe, or maybe not. You're still drinking the milk, right? No steak for babies.

So another argument then would be, ok, why then isn't the elder telling John that there are 2 groups of people there? Why is the elder only saying these are the ones from the Great Tribulation only? He is not mentioning the other group. My answer would be the same as Ch.5:9; why is GOD telling us that there are only 24 elders, but very carefully implying and showing us that they come from all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues? You will have to ask God His meaning for this. Is He sorta hiding this "mystery" and only revealing it to some?

Let's dissect Rev. Ch.4 a bit more.

(Rev 4:1) After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
(Rev 4:2) And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

A door is opened (here is a thought, was it only opened for John? Is that the time that the 24 elders group were also let in?) and then a trumpet like voice is heard saying - COME UP HERE, "hither" in Old English, interesting I think. Is that a coincidence too that the Lord's voice is likened unto a trumpet? That kinda sounds like a rapture, COME UP HERE and "immediately" he was in the Spirit in heaven before God's throne. That whole...

(1Co 15:52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

That's what I am picturing here with John's Revelation, it's a symbol of what we know is coming in the Post Trib Rapture. But it's being used in Rev 4, at the beginning of it all, or rather just before it begins. If the instant, moment, can explain what the Post Trib rapture will be like, I would imagine that the Pre Trib Rapture would be just like it, immediately and in a moment, in the twinkle of an eye.

John's going up at the exact point of which the Tribulation is about to start, symbolizing in itself a rapture, at that exact time into the future, to me, like I mentioned before is quite the coincidence. I do believe coincidences are signs from God. Does it come right out and say it, no. Does it have meaning? Well yes, it all does. This is definitely one reason why there is a controversy. But there are some really valid points here about John's timing, and the description on the 24 elders. So we will take all this and add it to more in a bit.

MID TRIB THEORY

Before we get to more Pre Trib scriptures, first I want to go down a rabbit trail to just touch a little bit on the Mid Trib Rapture theory.

In Ch.11 The Temple gets measured but not the outside court area, it is to be for the gentiles 42 months.

(Rev 11:2) But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

The very next verse gives us the 2 witnesses who are given power for 1260 days.

(Rev 11:3) And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

And this period although stated differently is again 42 months. So we have the 42 months of the 2 witnesses / temple given to Gentiles, followed by the 42 months where the devil is at war with the Woman's seed in Ch.12. (Except that the time is shortened, less no flesh will survive. We will bring that up later) Well the 2 witnesses turn water to blood, and smite with plagues as often as they want. The Beast kills them. They lie in the street 3 and a half days, after doing what they did for 3 and a half years.

(Rev 11:12) And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

This is very similar to John being called up hither as well. They were brought to heaven after they were given life. So we have another instance of people being called up into heaven via a rapture, not a resurrection. We also know that Elijah and Enoch were also taken up to heaven (raptured) while they were still alive. 2 more separate raptures. And Elijah will return before the Day of the Lord, which we learned is after the 1000 year reign.

(Mal 4:5) Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

Therefore I believe that Elijah is one of the 2 witnesses in the Great Tribulation. Now some people might take this COME UP HITHER, as a rapture, and a symbol of the church going up after the first 42 months with these 2 witnesses, Mid Way into the 7 year period of the tribulation.

(Dan 9:27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

And would therefore use this verse to coincide with what is called a MID TRIB Rapture theory. We do have these 2 people going up, we do have them going into a cloud, yes, but other than that, it can be assumed only, and there is nothing about a multitude of people for all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues to fit the kind of rapture we are looking for like the 24 elders one. The 2 witnesses actually represent the Jewish line more so than the ALL Nations group of the 24 elders.

(On another side note, a rabbit trail within a rabbit trail if you will) The Tribulation is said to be 7 years by many because of the Dan 9:27 verse and the 7 year peace treaty that will be signed with Israel and this treaty is broken half way through when the Abomination of Desolation occurs at the Temple by the Anti-Christ. Then notice it speaks of a consummation at the end of it which symbolizes the wedding night.

Some say that that the half way part is when the Great Tribulation really starts kicking in - Half way through. So technically from what I read, the Great Tribulation period lasts for 2-42 month periods. Some say there is regular tribulation during the first 42 and great tribulation during the 2nd 42. Along that thinking path then you can make a case for the Mid tribulation to be actually a pre Great Tribulation rapture.

I am not an advocate for the Mid Tribulation theory, which would be in conjunction after the first 42 months of the 2 witnesses, although I do have one other possible Mid Trib scenario that I will share because I maybe could be wrong, and someone else might need this to help prove their case, I don't know. So here it is. It's a symbol of a Mid Trib rapture.

(Joh 6:16) And when even was now come, his disciples went down unto the sea,

Evening started the new day, always evening and then morning make up a day. It is for them, the start of a big stormy day.

(Joh 6:17) And entered into a ship, and went over the sea toward Capernaum. And it was now dark, and Jesus was not come to them.

Symbolizes starting their walk with Jesus, they were heading home, and the darkness came, Tribulation had begun.

(Joh 6:18) And the sea arose by reason of a great wind that blew.

A big storm during this tribulation period, very great. Wind, remember the 4 winds where the elect are gathered.

(Joh 6:19) So when they had rowed about five and twenty or thirty furlongs, they see Jesus walking on the sea, and drawing nigh unto the ship: and they were afraid.

The Sea of Galilee was what they were crossing and note the length actually gets depicted here, not an amount of time, but a rough guess as to length, Why? Well 25-30 furlongs is about half way from where they were to where they were going. Half Way = Mid Way. Now it does say 25-30, so they could be about half way, not exactly half way.

(Joh 6:20) But he saith unto them, It is I; be not afraid.

Then Jesus Appears! All fear is gone!

(Joh 6:21) Then they willingly received him into the ship: and immediately the ship was at the land whither they went.

So they went through this storm, about half way, they see Jesus, They receive Him, and IMMEDIATELY they were at the place where they were heading, it was their home base in Capernaum. Home=Heaven.

Now I really like that possibility, that symbolism. But I cannot dig out much more than a possibility. Maybe you can? And you can reconcile EVERYTHING else as well? Please let me know. Back to Pre Trib proofs.

Pre Tribulation CASE #2 - STARS

Now let's look at these verses in Ch.12. Some people believe that this was depicting a set of signs in the stars, and those signs happened partially, on Sept. 23rd, 2017. (In April 2014 - Sept 2015 there were also a set of pre warning signs to this in the sky as a series of 4 blood moons in a row all happened coinciding with the feast days) The constellations aligned for the 42 weeks prior to Sept. 23 and you can watch some internet videos by a guy named Scott Clarke who documented it all. He was so sure that this was possibly the sign of the Pre Trib rapture.

I think he was right about noticing the Rev. Ch.12:1-2 signs. He was just wrong in thinking that it was going to happen exactly on Sept. 23rd, 2017. It was a sign indeed, but not completely fulfilled. But it was really good of him to let everyone know, so we can add his work into our own as we learn and have more truths revealed. If you see trouble coming, and you say nothing, even if it's not the event, if it could have been and you said nothing, then you failed to warn others. Let's look at Rev 12.

(Rev 12:1) And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
(Rev 12:2) And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

The birthing pains coming near is a symbol of tribulation coming. Now as for the rest of the verses there is more to discern here that has not happened yet.

(Rev 12:3) And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

This wonder in heaven has not yet happened as of 4/4/2020, that I am aware of, but refers to the devil coming on scene.

(Rev 12:4) And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

The stars here are representing fallen Angels who will be on the side of the devil during the Great Tribulation. And this is also a symbol of a star pattern revealed as a sign in the sky (heaven) most likely. The 1/3 of stars fall right at the beginning when a Pre Trib Rapture would occur.

But now look here at Ch.8 again during the 7th seal, during the 4th Angel sounding his trumpet, we again have a third of the stars.

(Rev 8:12) And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

Rev Ch.8 is not to the end of the GREAT TRIBULATION yet, but it's in the middle of it somewhere, but these stars mentioned here didn't fall, they were darkened, ie... doing evil in the GREAT TRIBULATION.

Now about stars falling, here it is again right after the Tribulation of those days.

(Mat 24:29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Let's put all of this star stuff together now. Right around when there is supposed to be a Pre Trib Rapture, 1/3 of the stars FELL. During The GREAT TRIBULATION, or in the Middle of the Tribulation 1/3 of the stars were DARKENED, they did not fall, and at the very end of Tribulation, immediately after it, ALL the STARS FALL. Wow huh? I find that just astounding, a coincidence of a sign if you will. Raptures and Stars have a connection. Signs in the heavens are there for a reason.

(Gen 1:14) And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

Pre Tribulation CASE #3 The Woman and her Seed

Let's look now at the rest of the Ch.12 verses and signs.

(Rev 12:5) And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Now these verses, up to 12:5 appear to be a symbol of Mary, the Virgin, who gave birth to Jesus, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron, and Jesus was indeed caught up to God after He rose from the dead and came out of the tomb. It is what a lot of websites believe and a lot of preachers preach as to the meaning of these verses, I mean a lot of them. And we do know this happened. And this very kind of thing in the stars is possibly what the wise men from the east saw about the birth of the King. But in the book of Revelation these are things in the future, right? John is not seeing the past here of Jesus' birth, but of some story that is going to happen in the future. So what is the story saying?

And right after this in the next verse here, we see the woman fled into the wilderness for 3.5 years. Now that did not happen in Jesus day, I mean Christians did flee afterwards and were being persecuted, but it does not give any kind of specific time of reference for it being exactly 3.5 years right after Jesus was crucified. We then go into the book of ACTS and no mention there of 3.5 years either, so what then is all of this referring to?

(Rev 12:6) And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

So if the woman's child, in Ch.12:5 is not Jesus, then who is the child? This is in the future, around the time of Tribulation, not 2000 years ago. I am saying that the Child that is caught up as soon as it's born is what is being symbolized as the timing of an event. I believe the event is the Pre Tribulation rapture. The child then is a symbol of Christians. Then the Woman went to a safe place in the wilderness prepared by God, which is a symbol of Israel in the past of when they were in the wilderness being fed the manna from God when they left Egypt during the Exodus. But what does it mean for today or rather in the tribulation?

(Rev 12:14) And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Who is this woman, what is she a symbol of? Notice the verbage of woman here, it is not singular, as in the woman was, but THEY were given 2 wings... I believe the Woman is the Church, others believe the Woman represents Israel.

Now what Scott Clarke had thought was that the sign in the heaven was the Constellation Virgo and the moon came into position at her feet and some planets moved in and made a crown of 12 stars over her head. 9 stars are always there from Leo. 3 stars were added as wandering stars, other planets, Venus, Mercury and Mars I believe they were. And another wandering star, Jupiter which is the King Star, that represents Jesus, was in the womb area of Virgo and completed a retrograde motion within her belly for 42 weeks and moved out of the womb giving a perfect sign of a birth.

Since this is not talking about Jesus back 2000 years ago, and that it is referring to the future of things to come, Scott Clarke believed that the child was a symbol of Christ (Christians) being raptured. I too believe this. But he believed that the rapture would happen Sept, 23rd, 2017. Obviously this was not the date. And when this symbol of the child coming out of the womb happened on 9/23/17, to also point out that this was indeed a very significant event to see in the heavens, but also to take note of was the fact that it happened on the Feast of Trumpets. Now that's a BIG coincidence or rather, a sign from God.

Now he was able to take a computer program and see this happen by advancing the days and watching what the stars would do and when they would do it. Someone just looking up at the sky would not have been able to see that. (For instance, I just can't look up at the sky and guess what will be there in a week from now) And when they saw it happen, if it meant the rapture right then and now, not many people would have been able to figure that out, and 2nd we are not supposed to know the day or the hour.

Even though the rapture did not happen on that date, I still believe he is on to something; this was a pretty huge deal. But since the rest of the signs didn't happen yet, that is most likely why the rapture hasn't happened yet. I do believe though that it is telling us, get ready, it is getting close.

Again, what did this sign mean? I believe it means that the Rapture will occur as was seen in the heavens around the feast of trumpets, the harvest celebration that occurs in the fall time. Only time will tell why this sign occurred when it occurred and exactly what all of it means. It tells a story.

(Mini rabbit hole here, remember we talked about the stars falling, and during the Great Tribulation, 1/3 of the stars fall to earth, is it possible that the signs in the stars according to the rest of Rev 12 might happen when those stars are removed? Would that change the constellations? Yes it would. I don't know, it is just another thought is all.)

So what does the rest of the Woman story in the heavens mean? Here is my theory. I believe that the Woman is the church. The Woman was ready to give birth, going through some labor pains right before the birth, and that symbolizes the coming rapture. When the Woman gives birth, the times are getting pretty bad, (the Child) Christians are Raptured. The Woman then is carried off for 42 months. So this symbolizes the Church is now in the wilderness. It represents that there is no one going to any of the regular churches at this time and the Church or current concept of Church as we know it will change into an underground Church. And during this 42 month period of new converts and new Saints coming to Christ through a network of wilderness churches, this is where the Tribulation Saints come from. After 42 months, that protection ends. Satan is loosed and tries to flush her out with a flood. But the earth swallows up the flood. The earth symbolizes the underground. Since the Child was raptured, and the church is hidden, Satan then makes war with the remnant Christians which is still the seed of the Church, but a smaller portion because that is all he can find and they are dispersed all over in smaller pockets, ie... remnant. That is my theory. What do you think?

Pre Tribulation CASE #4 - Revelation 3:10

Let's look back a bit at a key earlier verse in Rev. Ch.3.

(Rev 3:10) Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

This is the verse that gives a promise to the church of Philadelphia. Now this is a verse that points out a situation where they are NOT going to go through tribulation, being described here as the hour of temptation, coming upon the WHOLE World. If everyone has to go through the Great Tribulation (If no Pre Tribulation rapture exists) before they get raptured, explain this verse? Most Post tribbers, like I was, go ummm, I dunno, does the hour of temptation actually MEAN tribulation? Well, what else is coming upon the WHOLE EARTH, that God is promising to keep you from it, from being tried?

How does a Post Tribber reconcile this verse? Well I have heard one theory, and that was that maybe to "keep them from the hour of temptation" means to just put them in a safe place until it passes. Well, ok, that's a thought. We do have the Woman being brought to a safe place for 42 months, but there was a verse that stated her child (part of the Woman) was CAUGHT UP. And if it is only for 42 months, then she is then NOT kept from the hour of temptation that is to try the whole world, only half of it. So that comparison does not fit.

The only way that I can rationalize the word to KEEP FROM within the confines of this verse does not mean to set aside, because then it would violate THE WHOLE EARTH. In other words, to keep from, what the WHOLE EARTH is going to experience, of those who dwell on the earth, would have to mean, YOU ARE NOT on the earth, or dwelling in it.

Pre Tribulation CASE #5 - Wrath

Some people think the Wrath of God is the very end times after Rev 20:7 where everything gets all burned up and not during the Great Tribulation. So where does it say that IT IS God's Wrath during the Great Tribulation? The scriptures occur in the 1st timeline between Ch.4 and Ch.10 in Ch.6 and in another timeline between Rev. Ch.14 through Ch.19, and no mention at all of wrath in Ch.20, 21, or 22.

(Rev 6:16) And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
(Rev 6:17) For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

So the above mentions of God's Wrath happen AFTER the seals are opened and the Great Tribulation period is definitely in full swing. This timeline is affected and fits the case. And below here, in Ch.14-19 in a different part of a timeline of the Great Tribulation all fit the case I am making here.

(Rev 14:10) The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
(Rev 14:19) And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
(Rev 15:1) And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
(Rev 15:7) And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
(Rev 16:1) And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
(Rev 16:19) And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
(Rev 19:15) And out of his mouth goeth a sharp word, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

So if the body of Christ is not appointed to Wrath, where does it say we won't go through it? Well, right here:

(1Th 1:10) And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
(1Th 5:9) For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

And now we know that the wrath is happening during the timelines above which are during the GREAT TRIBULATION, and only a Pre Trib Rapture could validate those claims.

We do know that new Christian converts will be coming to Christ during the Great Tribulation, and they will be going through this period. So the question would come up then, well, then these Christians (those of understanding, I believe if they were TRUE Christians, they would have been raptured, since they have gone to church and have studied the Bible for years, they have great understanding, but have somehow failed to put it into practice) are going to be going through His Wrath. So how is this possible then? Well, these people of understanding are being given a 2nd chance, right? They had a chance to be Raptured before the Tribulation, right? They were not ready at that time. Many of them were not "ALL IN" Christians, they fell, they were not quite ready yet and still needed to be purified and made white and clean.

(Dan 11:35) And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

And we know there will be a great multitude that comes from the Tribulation, and so God has a plan for them to get into heaven. This group becomes very on fire for God! And there are also some Christians who are kept from the Wrath, as it also states in:

(Rev 3:10) Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

It doesn't say wrath in 3-10, it says hour of temptation, but it is very clear in these scriptures:

(1Th 1:10) And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
(1Th 5:9) For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

If everyone goes through the Great Tribulation, how would a Post Trib only believer reconcile all of these verses that clearly show Wrath being poured out during the Tribulation? And how would they explain the righteous not having to experience His wrath in a Post Tribulation only scenario? Clearly the Wrath is during Tribulation. A post Tribulation only theory does not reconcile these scriptures as well as a both a Pre Trib and a Post Trib rapture do.

It does mention wrath only once in referring it to the Day of the Lord, which is the end part after the 1000 years out of about 40 scriptures. So to be fair, it is there, and one could make an argument that the wrath scriptures are saying that Christians are only not going to suffer the wrath of this one verse at this period of time. But look at this verse; it is clear His wrath is for sinners, not for Christians.

(Isa 13:9) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

So even the one time that wrath was listed with the Day of the Lord, it is not valid, it is for sinners. Here are some more good verses on that topic.

(Nah 1:2) God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.
(Rom 1:18) For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
(1Th 5:9) For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

The original Church cannot be here during the wrath of God. It is the only way to reconcile these verses.

Pre Tribulation CASE #6 - The 7 Festivals of Israel

Let's look at them.


Passover - In the first month on the 14 day of the month
Unleavened Bread - on the 15th day - lasts 7 days
First Fruits - starts on the 16th day
Pentecost - 50 days after Passover
Trumpets - 7th Month on the 1st day of the month
Atonement (Yom Kippur) - 7th Month on the 11th day of the month - Jubilees happens on Atonement.
Tabernacles on the 15th day of the 7th month and for 7 days. On the first day shall be a solemn rest, and on the eighth day shall be a solemn rest.

Now the first 4 Festivals have been fulfilled by Jesus.

The Passover Feast had to deal with the Blood of the Lamb on the doorpost, And Jesus fulfilled it when he was crucified.

The Feast of Unleavened Bread Jesus was dead and in the ground for the first three days of this festival, He was raised to life in the midst of this feast and was then was accepted as the first fruits of God's spiritual harvest.

The Feast of First Fruits. Christ in His resurrection is the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep. He was the first of the harvest reaped.

The Feast of Pentecost was fulfilled when the Spirit of The Lord, The Holy Spirit (Jesus said I will come to you in John Ch.14) filled the believers and now dwells within them.

But the last 3 Feasts have not yet been fulfilled, and they must be fulfilled IN ORDER, you cannot take these feasts out of order. Let's look at these feasts a little more in depth then.

The Feast of Trumpets. This feast was especially important as it marked the time of the Fall Harvest. It also marked the soon coming of the Feast of Atonement so the Trumpets started a period of repentance leading up to the Day of Atonement. The fulfillment here would be Jesus harvesting the fields that are ripe.

The Feast of Atonement. Day of Atonement or Yom Kippur. It is said to be the most solemn of all the feasts. It was the final days of judgment and your final days to repent before your fate was sealed for the following year. The fulfillment of Jesus in correlation to this feast is definitely Judgment and people's final time to repent and follow Jesus before final judgement begins.

The Feast of Tabernacles. Also Sukkot. God instructed the Israelites to live in tents for 7 days. It was a reminder of their time in the wilderness when they dwelled together with God. The fulfillment of his feast is that during the 1000 year reign of Christ, God will dwell and live and rule on earth with man for the 1000 years and for ever after that.

So what does this all mean? Well some people say that the Feast of Trumpets is about the Trumpets blowing at the return of Christ. And it can have this dual meaning. But Trumpets are blown in Israel for many things. The Feast of trumpets marks a harvest and a soon coming need to repent because of the soon coming atonement for sins. The trumpets are a warning, meaning get right now, or you will receive judgement next year, God's wrath. The Great Tribulation is coinciding with the Feast of Atonement and God's wrath in judgement on the sinners who have not repented. Then the Feast of Tabernacles is when those who came out of the Great Tribulation will rule and reign with the Lord for 1000 years. These have to go in order. You can't have the wrath first, and then the Feast of Trumpets or call to repentance, it would not make sense to punish someone, and then repent, which is what most people have unknowingly possibly assumed. You make a call to repent, those that do will be rewarded, those that don't, wrath. Otherwise it would be out of order.

So Trumpets, Atonement, then Tabernacles. YES!

Trumpets, Atonement, Trumpets, Tabernacles. No.

Or, Atonement, Trumpets, Tabernacles. No.

The festivals in order do not include a Festival for the Post Trib Rapture, because at that exact time, Tabernacles starts.

Pre Tribulation Rapture Case #7 - Isaiah's Prophecy

(Isa 26:20) Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
(Isa 26:21) For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Again, just like above in Case 6, repent, get rewarded, 26:20 don't repent, wrath. 26:21

This surely looks like Isaiah has prophesied that at the time the Lord comes to punish, His people will be hidden in their chambers. It says for a little while, as if to say, just a little bit until this thing is completed that I need to protect you from. We clearly have Saints in heavenly chambers waiting while the tribulation is taking place. Is "come my people", only 24 elders? You can also look up the meaning of the word indignation online, it means: anger aroused by something unjust.

Pre Trib CASE #8 - WATCH

Do you recall Jesus always saying Behold, I come quickly. Why do you suppose He is saying that over and over and over?

(Rev 3:11) Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
(Rev 22:7) Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
(Rev 22:12) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
(Rev 22:20) He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

And what about all the verses that say to WATCH?

(Mat 24:42) Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

I think that if you are NOT expecting a Pre Tribulation rapture, then there really is no SURPRISE Mystery to watch for at this time. (And that is why my dream frightened me.) But we are to watch for some kind of rapture based on all of the evidences I have shared with you so far. We are expecting a Post Tribulation Rapture and we know pretty much about when that is going to happen.

(Mat 24:44) Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

(Mar 13:32) But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
(Mar 13:33) Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
(Mar 13:34) For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
(Mar 13:35) Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
(Mar 13:36) Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
(Mar 13:37) And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

All of the Matthew 24 and the Mark 13 verses above happen in the chapters which describe the Great Tribulation. If the Tribulation is over, those alive will be Raptured immediately. But the Pre Trib Rapture, that one is a mystery, how are we supposed to know when that one is going to happen? Watch for the signs? Watch for it? Expect one to happen as you see the signs approaching. Be ready! Yes, I believe so.

(Luk 21:36) Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Now unlike the Mark and Matthew verses that we just read telling us to watch, it can be well assumed, that those verses are telling people who are going through the Great Tribulation of what to watch for. Again these people would be the 2nd chance Christians, who weren't really all in, they would be many of the Jewish Nation who were deceived and are now awakened to the full truth of Jesus Christ being THE Messiah that many of them could not see and many brand new Christians who are brand new in their faith.

But Luk 21:36 actually says to WATCH, so that you would be accounted worthy to ESCAPE all of the things that will be coming to pass! Now that is really interesting. This is a bit of a twist. The other verses state, watch so you know when Jesus will return, when you see these things happening. Meaning you are living through them, you are experiencing them. And you need some hope because this is really going to be bad. But then this little treasure verse is just kind of hiding in the weeds. It states to watch and to pray, you will be accounted worthy to escape ALL OF THESE THINGS. If you escape some of them, that is one thing. You could go through some of them, and be killed during them. Now this to me is a verse that really tells me that if you are truly walking with God, that if you're not just going through the motions and you really LOVE JESUS, then you would be counted worthy. Now the command is Watch and Pray. Why would the Lord have you or I watch and pray that we escape ALL of these things, if it wasn't a possibility that it could actually happen?

And to that, I would say, is a solid Pre Tribulation case, because if you were "escaping" via a Post Trib rapture, you really would not be escaping anything at all. Because the Tribulation is technically over at this point and you made it. You escaped by enduring? That does not line up. And from a Mid Trib point of view it does not add up either because you would not be escaping all of it, only about half of it.

Now another reason to watch is referred to as being the Watchman. If you were a watchman in the old cities that were fortified with a wall around it, and you saw the enemy coming and did not warn the people, their blood would be on your hands!

(Eze 33:6) But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

So being a watchman and to watch is a 2 fold process. 1 - To watch for the Lord so you are not overtaken as a thief in the night. I was shown that I was overtaken in my dream, I was unaware of a coming rapture, I had no idea what had grabbed me, I was very afraid. Instead, had I been watching, expecting, then when the Lord sent his Angel to grab me, I would have been joyously jubilated!

(1Th 5:4) But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
(1Th 5:5) Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
(1Th 5:6) Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
(1Th 5:7) For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
(1Th 5:8) But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
(1Th 5:9) For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
(1Th 5:10) Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
(1Th 5:11) Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

If you are watching, and see the times around you, if you are not sounding an alarm to others, if you are not preaching the gospel to others, if you are not sharing about what you know and see, if you are not warning others, then you are definitely in danger of having the blood of others on your hand. And that is an awful thought, isn't it?

Final Thoughts

How can I sum this up but to say, WOW! I really want to Thank God for all that He has given me, and I do pray that you have gleaned something of value from this and that you see it as truth from God's Holy Word. Like I mentioned in the beginning, I have never heard of the possibility of what I have proposed to you today. I have not even heard of it, and dismissed it as a Nah, No way, and then have now come back to it giving it another chance and thought. I have never heard the theory of there being 2 Raptures, let alone the possibility of a 3rd one. It was always, Pre Trib or Post Trib, maybe even a Mid Trib, but both? And a 3rd? Oh C'mon!

Now I don't think that I am the only one who has come up with this. I am sure there are others out there. And I am sure you can do some online searches and figure this out and maybe other writers have already mentioned this. I have just written this down as God gave it to me. If you have found other information to add to this, and have gotten more understanding, Praise God! Share it! Get it out there!

Now here is a Word of Warning to any and all who might be reading this. If you are a believer in Christ, at the time that the Tribulation starts, according to the scriptures we have discussed, you will be raptured. I am sure the enemy will have some lying excuse for why some people disappeared, an Alien abduction maybe? Who knows? You can count on a misinformation plan to be rolled out. But you should take notice of the people who were highly regarded as Christian to be gone. If you are NOT raptured at this time and start to go through Tribulation, DO NOT TAKE THE MARK OF THE BEAST. This will be a sort of electronic tracking computerized ID that can be scanned on or in your body somehow. Some people are claiming it could be given in conjunction with a vaccine even, or some sort of invisible electronic tattoo that gets scanned. All will be forced to take it otherwise you will not be allowed to buy or sell. And for not taking this Mark, you will be highly persecuted unto death, and many will be beheaded. (I do believe that there are some that live so remotely in the wilderness of jungles and various other parts of the world where they have hidden that would not need to take the Mark and not buy or sell anything, and they will remain to populate the 1000 years, because there had to be some left to populate the earth in the 1000 years.) There may not be many left after the Rapture and after God's wrath. But anyone that takes the Mark will NOT be allowed into heaven and will suffer His wrath.

(Rev 14:9) And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
(Rev 14:10) The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

So this Mark is a big deal, it will separate those who believe from those who don't and flat out won't. From those who repented, from those would not. If you want a 2nd chance at getting into heaven, this is the time to be bold and stand up for Christ no matter what the consequences, even unto death.

The fearful will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

(Rev 21:8) But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

And again, just saying you're a "BELIEVER" and actually not following God's commandments is just talk without action, and this is your warning:

(Mat 7:21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Anyone who heeds these warnings will be wise, very wise, and your 2nd chance is your chance to be bold. But anyone would have to agree, that to be bold now, before tribulation comes, that it would be very wise to repent and tell everyone you know that you Love Jesus and Jesus loves you! Tell them why, and start watching God do things in your life that will blow you away.

The purpose of writing this little book is to bring glory to God, to bring people to the truth of Him. To stop division amongst believers as far as rapture theology goes. To help others know God. To help people understand God and cause them to seek God. And ultimately to have other people repent, be forgiven, and have a loving relationship with the True Creator God, Jesus Christ. And then when you know the truth, that you share it with others, and also that you are watching and that when you see something, or know something, that you do not keep it to yourself.

I have always thought, "Why did God even create everything and us in it?" And it says He did it for His pleasure. I believe God is Love. I believe He created us to Love Him and to be Loved by Him.

In His Love, May God Bless You,

Michael Flipp

Thank You Jesus!

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